Important Survey regarding Vehicle Modifications
10-03-2014, 11:30 PM,
#1
Important Survey regarding Vehicle Modifications
Hi Guys,

It seems the Government is once again sticking it's fingers in areas we would rather they not!
Four Wheel Drive QLD - Our State Body has been actively involved over the years as the proposals have presented and to the most part QLD has managed to bypass the worst of the changes, for this to continue we need to be vocal about our wishes and support our representatives in these meetings.

Below is the Letter I received from the Association and attached are more details and a survey for you to email to the address below.

** The Survey is to be filled out at the next club meeting and submitted as a Group response - sorry if you also got this wrong on the my first posting.

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Good Afternoon Clubs,

Please find attached a letter, survey and additional information relating to vehicle modification in Queensland.
Regards

[attachment=2]

[attachment=1]

Kris Humphrys
President (Acting)

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Email: <!-- e --><a href="mailto:pr@4wdqld.com.au">pr@4wdqld.com.au</a><!-- e -->
Mobile: 0431 801 874


Four Wheel Drive Queensland
P.O. Box 174
Brisbane Markets QLD 4106
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Attached Files
.pdf   4WD-Vehicle-Modifications-in-Queensland-Time-for-Change.pdf (Size: 64.48 KB / Downloads: 451)
.pdf   20140309 Vehicle Modification.pdf (Size: 413.78 KB / Downloads: 409)
.jpg   Untitled.jpg (Size: 16.31 KB / Downloads: 612)
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11-03-2014, 12:06 PM,
#2
Re: Important Survey regarding Vehicle Modifications
I hope this is the right place to post this,if not please move it.

"In Queensland, the Professional Engineers Act 2002, mandates automotive mechanical
engineers need to be accredited and certified with the Queensland Professional Engineer
Register (QPER). However unlike NSW RMS, QLD TMR does not have any program in place
which recognises the certifications or accreditations of professional automotive engineers,
or allows them to operate to their own professional abilities. Therefore due to the QCOP
restrictions, Queensland motorists are limited to a maximum of 50mm (2 inches) suspension
lift for 4WDs. Seeking the professional services of a certified automotive engineer will gain
no additional options to increase suspension lift, however in other states you can."

I find this statement to be erroneous and misleading.
As per the QPER website it learly states "
Assessment of Qualifications
Members of Engineers Australia in the occupational category of Professional Engineer have a qualification that meets the requirement of Part 2 of the Professional Engineers Act 2002 (Qld)."
Therefore a member of Engineers Australia (qualified in the right area of expertise) is able to sign off on the vehicle mods required if they meet the stanard.

Further to that the main reason that there is difficulty in gaining approval for lifts and modifications above NCOP standards in Qld is that there are no testing facilities in Qld for lane change tests etc.
The Qld dept of transport has agreed to and already accepted engineers reports and lane change test results from NSW as they are carried out to the section of NCOP that Qld has accepted.

This does make it more expensive to get approval because of having to travel to NSW for testing, but it is very doable.

I see the problem with raising this issue at a state level that , the Qld authorities may no longer accept that part of NCOP that allows these modifications and that may lead to the closing of this avenue for those who want this modification completely. Since it is a very low percentage of 4x4ers that want these "extreme" modifications it seems to put this to a general population" vote of perhaps uninformed and or uninterested persons may not be in the main interest of those who want them.

Having a whine about wanting a 4" lift and 35" tyres is not the same as those who build a dedicated off road vehicle to engineers specs and are willing to pay the dollars for the required tests. The questions in the survey will no doubt ,due to the way they are phrased reap the result that 4x4 Qld want and send them on a perhaps costly excercise that really has a preconcluded outcome. I think funds could be better spent in other areas.

Just my opinion but perhaps food for thought for others.
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11-03-2014, 03:15 PM,
#3
Re: Important Survey regarding Vehicle Modifications
Hi Mate,

Must agree on much if not all of what you said, I say this as I actually don't fully understand the requirements and in part nor do some of the Authorities so it seems!

From what I have been told there has been cases of people being defected for blue plated modification and made to go over the pits at the owners expense only to have it all cleared without any penalty for the issuing officer!
I have also been told that QLD Transport have little to no people with the necessary skills for making such decisions and rely totally on external engineers for assessments, so it seems very much a mute point - to a point..

I just wish they would get away from sighing agreements with international bodies and set a standard for Australia that is fair, basically if an engineer certifies it as being safe then it should be allowed, same with standard kits or lift heights - once it's been passed and accepted then it should be permitted without the need for inspection!

From what I understand and have been told - if you were to follow the law to the full you would need to get an inspection after removing and re-installing your seats to clean the floor! or changing your indicator lamps from 5w to 10w globes!
I understand the need for standards and certifying some modifications and I think you would all agree you have seen heavily modified vehicles that should not be on the road - but no matter what the rules are you will always get people that try to bend them.
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11-03-2014, 07:27 PM,
#4
Re: Important Survey regarding Vehicle Modifications
enough debate this could go on for ages without resolution

What do we want to happen
are we happy with our current lot or do we want change

so do we want modifications or not
Pros
better with engineers approval than nothing
if we build it and they will come, if we create a need it will appear, we will find a way to get engineers approval and lane changing testing in Qld and whatever else we need

Cons
Yobbos who will bring all of us into public view as reckless

Summary
we cannot be stifled by the ludicrous few who flaunt every law any way as a way of life
those of us who want it will follow the rules, and feel safer in their mods
after market accessories will have to make the grade or they wont be bought
Vote with positiveness not with negativism
If you think NCOP is good enough for you vote for it
If you think Engineered mods are the way vote for it
Note voting means you like it the way it is

Pretty simple, but effective

Note: there will plenty of debate back and forth, before any decision is ever made, and you may not like the decision once it is made, but I do urge you to like your vote, it is after all what we can really control
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11-03-2014, 10:12 PM,
#5
Re: Important Survey regarding Vehicle Modifications
It would appear that there is no option.
Look at the survey questions :Suspension – We would like to
see:
 QLD adopt the NCOP in relation to this matter
 QLD maintain the current 50mm suspension std without engineer but allow unlimited
modification to suspension with Engineers approval
 Other:_________________________________________________________________

Any body who has read the NCOP and the current Qld regs would realise that they are in accord with each other.


 QLD adopt the NCOP in relation to this matter

section 1.2 of NCOP 1.2 MODIFICATIONS REQUIRING CERTIFICATION UNDER SECTION LS
The following modifications require certification under the LS Codes;
• Left to right hand drive steering conversions;
• Steering and suspension modifications;
• Power steering (non-standard) conversion;
• Rack and pinion steering conversion;
• Suspension strut or upright substitution;
• Rear axle substitution; and
• Raising the vehicle beyond 50mm but not more than 150mm.

section 1.1 of NCOP 1.1 BASIC MODIFICATIONS NOT REQUIRING CERTIFICATION
The following modifications may be performed without certification if they are carried out in
accordance with sub-section 2 General Requirements and the total change in vehicle height
resulting from all modifications performed, does not exceed 50mm.

• Tyre and rim substitution carried out within the limits specified in this Section;
• Lowering and raising suspensions (by not more than one third of the original
suspension travel provided the original vehicle height is not increased or decreased by
more than 50mm);
• Raising the vehicle with a body lift kit provided the original vehicle height is not
increased by more than 50mm (refer to sub-section 4.11 for conditions and limitations);
• Shock absorber substitution;
• Spring and sway bar substitution;
• Track rod and strut brace installation;
• Steering wheel substitution (refer to sub-section 4.9 of this Section); and
• Power steering (manufacturer’s option) conversion.

And one of the most important clauses.
Note: In NSW, although vehicles whose height has been changed up to 50mm do not
require certification by an engineering signatory, the registration authority must be
notified of the modification. ((this does not have to be done in Qld.)

Queensland has adopted this section of the NCOP.
So option one is already in place.

 QLD maintain the current 50mm suspension std without engineer but allow unlimited
modification to suspension with Engineers approval.
Qld has already adopted the NCOP of limiting vehicle lifting limit of 150mm. The NCOP does not cover vehicles raised more than that as there are several requirments under the ADR's that can only be done on an individual vehicle basis,such things a headlight height, bumper height etc.

No state allows unlimited modification to suspension with engineers aproval and it is not something that will ever be allowed due to having to meet ADR's.

So the options to question one are , vote for what already exsists or for something that due to other design restrictions can never exsist, or other (whatever that may be).

The same thing applies for the section on tyres so I won't bother to type it all out.One thng worth noting though is that it is not only tyre diameter that is regulated but also width. Width is the main restriction on complying to ADR's and does require significant upgrading in other suspension parts to even come close to ADR's regarding unsprung weight, turning circles etc.

In my opinion the questions are poorly studied with one answer giving what already exsists and the other option giviing something that never will.
So only answering positive to either of the first two options in question one will give those who want to heavily modify there vehicles any chance of getting it approved in Qld.
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12-03-2014, 02:27 PM,
#6
Re: Important Survey regarding Vehicle Modifications
Sounds like you have a good understanding of the rules Wink

Maybe you should get involved with the meetings :o

I must admit to getting a tad confused when it gets to rulings like this but agree on the selection is a bit dosile and non productive.
The Association is looking for people and desperately need some new blood...
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12-03-2014, 10:15 PM,
#7
Re: Important Survey regarding Vehicle Modifications
Discussed this at this month's meeting about the pros and cons but as there was not great interest in supporting the aforementioned modification changes, we decided to adopt to support the NCOP as it is at the moment, and send in the survey for our club saying that
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